splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

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Monty on the Run
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:41 pm
Location: The Outer Reaches of your Mind

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by Monty on the Run »

c0rnn wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:13 am
Monty on the Run wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:20 pm
All we can hope for is that the mad professor behind it all (c0rnn) will manage to remain fair and unbiased.
I didn't make VSP stats, I just use the data it offers.
Monty thinks you understood what he meant :|

YOU, c0rnn, are the one who decides how to interpret the VSP stats ("use the data").
YOU are the one who decides "x VSP stat = x value in terms of rankings".
We, the players, have no control over our own fate.
All we can do is dance around (like some puppets on a string) while c0rnn orchestrates the rankings.

To draw a parallel, it's the same madness as Harlekin deciding there can be NO HIGH GRASS on Radar.
And creating a TANK THAT DRIVES BY ITSELF and a totally unneeded ROOF BRIDGE on Fueldump
Or YOU, c0rnn, deciding that there can be NO MINES and NO MORTAR FALL FROM THE SKY on Battery.
And now you're pondering creating an INVISIBLE WALL between the guns on sw_oasis_b3 (to prevent jumpers).

It's constant fiddling like this that makes players lose familiarity with the game.
Liquid Sn.
[!!!]
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:47 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by Liquid Sn. »

Monty, when will you finally lose familiarity with this game? :lol: :lol: :lol:
S3AL
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:41 am

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by S3AL »

1. VSP was made for Quake, the data it collects and the formulas it uses are correct for 1vs1 frag-based Quake games.

2. VSP is incorrect in about measuring ANY skill in ET (its a totally different game than quake).

3. ET is too complex to measure someones skill with something like VSP stats. He would have to work towards objective, deal damage, help teammates and hundreds of other micro shit. In quake its easy - the one who fragged more, is the one who won the game, thus he was more skilled.

4. Corn is trying to use VSP data to make as realistic as possible ranking placements. Overall stat measurement (what it used to be) is BAD. STAT / GAMES played measurement (what it is now) is better, but not good enough because a game can last 30 minutes or 1 minute and the value of single game is always 1, which in ET is incorrect. STAT / TIME PLAYED would be the best, but vsp doesnt collect time played. AND this would only work for stats that are shared between classes. Specific class based stats - forget about it, nothing can collect time on how long you played panzer, or fops, or medic.

5. Everyone who plays for VSP stats is not playing ET. They are playing their own 'vsp game' to pump their fragile egos. No one cares about your vsp stats. Everyone knows who is skilled in ET, and who sucks, irregardless of which awards vsp gives you.

6. I believe these stats were implemented for 'informative purpose', but it's backfiring and it's generating morons who are not playing the game the way its meant to be played.

I put a bit of effort - suggestions and some formulas into this, but again... hoping it would just be 'informative' stats. But now that I see the outcome, it's clear we're dealing with morons who changed their view of the game to pursue their #1 ranking at something thats just damaging to ET in every possible sense. ET is an objective team stopwatch game, the team that wins is BETTER. On pubs - ET is whatever you want it to be, but the more you play it in the way its meant to be played - towards objective, the better that pub experience will be. In short, the more you play for VSP stats, the less you are playing ET the way it should be played.

So heres my advice to Corn - ditch the stats, throw it all away, save some server performance, stop dealing with demanding morons who will only be happy when you modify the stats so they are #1 on that list, no matter how correct these stats are. Keep the console stats that you made yourself that appear after the game, they are great and maybe work on improving that part (bcs I know you are having fun with this) but every other long-term tracking stats system - vsp and shit, throw it out, hirntot gaming experience will benefit from it.
Monty on the Run
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:41 pm
Location: The Outer Reaches of your Mind

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by Monty on the Run »

S3AL wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:00 pm
So heres my advice to Corn - ditch the stats, throw it all away, save some server performance, stop dealing with demanding morons who will only be happy when you modify the stats so they are #1 on that list, no matter how correct these stats are. Keep the console stats that you made yourself that appear after the game, they are great and maybe work on improving that part (bcs I know you are having fun with this) but every other long-term tracking stats system - vsp and shit, throw it out, hirntot gaming experience will benefit from it.
If memory serves Monty right, many years ago Hirntot removed VSP stats altogether for the exact reason S3AL is suggesting.
Hirntot is an obj server, and it is a shame that some ignore obj play in favour of preserving their own stats.
Would be interesting to see a poll on the subject.
Monty is so confident that the majority would vote to remove the VSP stats, that he would even make a fire bet.
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by hyperloop »

C'mon Monty, try to be a little more constructive. So what if it's not a democracy, just appriciate the the time, money and effort these guys spend keeping this server alive, clean, and fun with new functions all the time. It's an old game way past it's due date, and they try their best to keep it fair and ever exciting. They are even open for input and suggestions through these forums!

I don't know what the deal is with this new guy Seal calling everyone morons. But for my part at least, stats or not, I am playing like I always have on this server for 7 + years (Shit, it's really been this long! Never should have reinstalled back then :o ). I don't think anybody here is trying to influence variables to get on top of lists, that sounds a bit narrow minded to me. I am suggesting to make stats relevant for those who play here regularly, not those guys who played 100 games 2 years ago with panza or mg42 only.

Previously I only used VSP to keep track and identify cheaters, but now with the server commands a whole new dimension have been introduced. And I believe it's a good one!
S3AL
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:41 am

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by S3AL »

I dont call everyone morons. Just a couple of you farming for QUAKE stats and just playing... trash. The sad thing is, you could all actually be pretty good players, if you only played the game properly. The majority of people on hirntot are all normal, hell, thats one of the reasons i play there. Majority of players there dont even know what vsp stats are and just enjoy the game for what it is.

People play ET because they want to play ET. They dont play it because a server features QUAKE stats system. Harlekin, cornn, and whoever else make it possible that we still play what we wanna play - ET. And sometimes an idea pops out, lets try to do this and that... but it backfires. Imo this is one of those backfires.

Its just my opinion, dont take it too personal. You aint dumb, you know what ET is all about, and you know that quite often you dont play it that way. Think about it this way... if you played in a clan, tournament for money, would you play it the way you do? The moment cornn changed from overall stats to ratio stats (and I recommended him to do that to make !x commands more correctly 'informative') both you and qpaq cried like little bitches, because you werent #1 in landmine frags, and qpaq wasnt #1 in panzer. And that says everything about you and the way you play... you play for VSP stats. And i'm trying to explain you, VSP stats is wrong for ET, its made for Quake so if you play for it, you're playing the wrong game. The purpose of it was just casually 'informative' - eg. 'lets see how many frags approx i make with a pistol'.

And you know... the way you say 'rewarded' regarding the stats, its just... weird. It's not rewards. No one cares, no one is going to give you a trophy, there will be no ceremony.. again, it's supposed to be casually informative.
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by hyperloop »

Ofc people play ET because they like it. Stats is just a fun addition to expand the server experience. I made an argument about the sorting of stats, if that makes me a criar so be it. Still I believe my argument holds merrit. Regardsless of me being nr1 miner or not. Make a vote then, lets see what the community want.

And I am not even gonna comment about how you talk about how a game should be played. lol
S3AL
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:41 am

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by S3AL »

hyperloop wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:51 pm
Ofc people play ET because they like it. Stats is just a fun addition to expand the server experience. I made an argument about the sorting of stats, if that makes me a criar so be it. Still I believe my argument holds merrit. Regardsless of me being nr1 miner or not. Make a vote then, lets see what the community want.

And I am not even gonna comment about how you talk about how a game should be played. lol
Why not comment it? Maybe thats where you dont get me. Every game has an objective, a goal if you will. The more you drift away from that goal, u're missing the point of the game. In active games you'd get punished for it easily... no one would play with you ever, in et, its all good, but why do it? ET is not a competition of who makes most mine kills, or panzer kills, it has an objective, axis defend it usually, allies 'attack in and do the objective' - thats what ET is about. Do any kind of fragging you want, if it serves that objective. If it doesnt, and it serves only you and your stats, then basically my opinion is 'fof'.
c0rnn
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Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by c0rnn »

I just realized I don't have 1000 games played myself (289) and would therefore not get ranked :(

Maybe only limit to players with 1000+ kills would be a better idea (for me).

Edit: but then again, everyone with 1000 kills has at least 100 games played, which is currently used as the limit (average number of games = 100), so there wouldn't be a difference.
Monty on the Run
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:41 pm
Location: The Outer Reaches of your Mind

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by Monty on the Run »

Maybe the rankings could somehow implement the win/loss record of each player?
After all, winning the rounds is what really matters.

When Monty plays he always keeps score of the wins in a campaign.
So what if his team just got slaughtered last round?
Monty's team won the 3 rounds prior to that and is already up 3-1 in the 7-map campaign.
If winning rounds matters to you, this is the approach you need to take (to keep your sanity).

Looking at Monty's stats, we see 3 values under "team":

Loss: 2155
Score: 6803935 (no idea how this number is calculated)
Wins: 2457


This confirms that Monty is not only skilled with his weapon - he also wins more than he loses.
Monty is happy.
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