splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

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evirdrevo
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:10 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by evirdrevo »

I totally agree with Seal, I even asked corn to stop promoting the k/d ranking on the server since it destroys the gameplay. ET isn't about farming k/d ratio, there is no rule in the game that says you cannot die. The only thing that matter is doing the objective and (in competitive) doing it as fast as possible.

Hirnot is turning into cybergames more and more each day and those stats aren't helpful, quit the contrary. I agree they can be fun, but some people take those numbers at their face value while they actually only give a general idea of how good a player is. As such, those rankings affect the way the game is being played and you end up with the current state of the server.

I'm just losing interest in the game where allies are sitting on a bridge for 20 minutes, there are +3 guys camping the catwalk and the U turn has been minded by a rifle who has can only pot rifleshots and +back while the tank cannot get into its final position. I'm losing interest in a game where sitting inside your spawn to put an arty every 30 seconds becomes a valid strategy since k/d ratio = skill apparently.

There are a few players who I look up to for playing just for their love of the game, Jorma69 being a prime example but also kiano, hyperloop, brody, qpaq (just nerf his mortar, it still way too op) come to mind. edit: oink and serano definitely are such players as well. These are the guys who actually want to play the objective.
Last edited by evirdrevo on Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
S3AL
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:41 am

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by S3AL »

Ser4no and oink are the most valuable players on the server. Objective oriented multiclassers, with good aim and movement. There are many others (usually smg engs) who i appreciate equally, because they try, there are some fopses and medics too. Muchacho is pretty good at objective too, the reason i respect him unlike other aimers who are just farming. Yesterday i was giving shit to 'miyagi' aka 'whatt' aka 'dreamworks', and everyone was in awe for me criticising bcs he does so many kills and so much damage. Yeah bro, if a guy sits on the goldrush bridge corner for 25 minutes with his boyfriends fops and rifle farming for frags, who gives a shit for his kills, when he is totally irrelevant to any form of objective (ET), its also much easier to do kills like that, and its especially easy to get good k/d ratio like that. It's kinda disrespectful to all your teammates who are trying to do the objective. That sort of people just dont belong in a team game, it's solos, which doesnt exist in ET. Liquid same story, except liquid cares more about 'not dying' than farming for frags, he knows exactly which type of gameplay will put him on #1 on that vsp stats list. I think he even admits to that. If he hit that 'selfkill' button once, I think whole world would collapse, weird fckr. Qpaq? Yeah, when he takes that ultra mobile class mortar and goes full sprint mode to grab that gold crate, yeah he all objective. The guy is trash, he could be awesome, but thats what makes him even more trash. He proved my point the moment he whined to cornn how he is not #1 in panzer anymore. Those are actually the people i call 'trash' there mostly, when they got the potential but they choose the opposite direction - farming for numbers, cracked egos. Specially when you realise they farming for vsp numbers, which is not even part of the game.

Hyperloop might be right though, who am I to say how the game should be played today? Clearly ET was designed as an objective game, clearly the competitive ET which lasted 10 years revolved around objective gameplay - do the objective within a given time and better than the opponent and you win, but maybe hirntot works because you dont have to do the objective... you dont have to play et that way. It's like soccer for 4 year olds, you know... 'Its okay honey, you dont have to try to score a goal, as long as you are running on the grass and having fun'. I definitely am right on how ET should be played (I didnt write those rules, the game designers did the 50%... the competitive etpro community did the other 50%), but I guess i dont have to be right on how that game on hirntot should be played, but what game are we playing then? It aint ET...

Anyway, we drifted off topic a bit. Back to harlekins question "How about some more detailed Player/server stats?". Here's something I said to cornn yesterday too - My opinion - Log the stats, without vsp, maybe directly with that lua script cornn did after each game, thats insanely detailed, but it'd have to insert data in your custom database, BUT (and this is KEY) remove the ranking based on those stats. That'll make it informative only. So if you do !killstats, you'll get eg. 'you made 8000 kills, 20 kills per game, 400 games played' without your ranking + get rid of the vsp web. That way you'll have all the cool stats and without ranking anymore the trash people will have to find another source to compensate for their tiny pee pee. Olee 8D
evirdrevo
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:10 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by evirdrevo »

, BUT (and this is KEY) remove the ranking based on those stats.

100% agree
Liquid Sn.
[!!!]
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:47 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by Liquid Sn. »

I agree with seal on this one. Not the rage part and calling names, but in general what he wrote is true (in my opinion). We are now discussing it in the admins area on how we want to deal with this whole situation. My only question is - if those fraggers/campers/stathoers(me:P) would start playing for objective, would it really make hirntot better for all the ppl? Is hirntot really an objective server?
Yesterday I played on hirn2, full server 12v12, I tried what seal was proposing - playing for objective/rushing/selfkilling/not caring about stats (yea, I can do that too) and it was great, but there weren't any noobs who just wanna chill after work, there were good players only. Maybe hirn2 is where the real objective server is?
Monty on the Run
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:41 pm
Location: The Outer Reaches of your Mind

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by Monty on the Run »

Hirn2 is where those who can't handle the heat from artillery/HW on Hirn1 hides.
This was established a decade ago, and Monty doubts this mindset has changed.
The obj play on Hirn2 compared to Hirn1 is exactly the same.

Hirntot is as good an obj server that you will ever find on a pub.
It's one of the reasons why Hirntot is still standing.
And for one who has been around for the whole ride, Monty can state unequivocally that the focus on obj play used to be far greater in the past.
Whether that's because of the VSP stats he'll let other decide.

As a side note, it's confusing to read S3AL go on a rant about players with gameplay he does not care for, and not mention Monty's name once :?
This would indicate that he does not see Monty as a threat.
Which is again confusing, because according to !vsstats Monty is the predator and S3AL is the prey :lol:
S3AL
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:41 am

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by S3AL »

I played on both servers, I see the same problem on both servers. First, its not all that bad, because a lot of people play objective.

To be honest Liquid, most often amateur players play objective way more than experienced ones on hirntot, it's like a default state when u start playing et... they know its about objective, initially of course. And vsp ranking system is negatively contributing in judging people by their skill, so its even worse for noobs. Then someone with good stats is flashing his #1 ranking badge constantly, yee im the best panzer, yee im this, im that. Its all irrelevant to et. ET on a public is as casual as it could be. Because its a team game, a single player cannot win nor lose, its his team. So anything thats ranking you individually makes it less casual and turns it into this 'im better than you' competition and consequently that alters the gameplay into something the game isnt by its nature.

I guess you admins have to agree on what kind of gameplay you wanna push on the server. If you wanna push pure original ET, or even more etpro ET its easy... bye bye vsp.

On the other hand, I understand the 'fear' of doing more damage than good. I guess you gotta do an assessment of wether this change would push people away or make the server more fun, or both.

In theory, everyone should enjoy ET more by playing towards objective... because they chose to play an objective-based game. You clearly converted in a day, and you liked it. Will it be the same with others... dont know.

You definitely have more 'monopolistic power' with hirntot. Its one of the last servers alive. People who wanna play the game, have to go there. What I'm trying to say, you have plenty of room to take some risks by making changes you (admins) think are good.
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by hyperloop »

I don't see a change in gameplay at all, by the players on the server. Liq has been doing his snail movements for years, dream has been on the corner of the bridge for years, harvesting for years, I have been land mining and backkraping for years . With stats and without stats. The picture painted that there is less focus on obj due to stats is just subjective thoughts, nothing more.

I like the idea Seal has about giving stats but remove the rank. If that is something of a middle ground. I also like Monty´s thoughts about doing a rank by wins and losses. Maybe that would create more focus on objective play, not that I think that is an issue at all on this server.

Hirn is a place for all game styles, it always have been, which also is its success formula.
S3AL
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:41 am

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by S3AL »

Maybe thats the ultimate solution:

1. Main !stats(and the only ranked stats) could be games won / games lost ratio. It might push people to do objective, so i like it.

2. Keep the other stats but remove the ranking from them - informative stats.

3. Remove (hide) vsp web.
evirdrevo
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:10 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by evirdrevo »

I like monty's idea about ranking by win / losses as well
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: splatterladder -> How about some more detailed Player/server stats?

Post by hyperloop »

c0rnn wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:57 am
I just realized I don't have 1000 games played myself (289) and would therefore not get ranked :(

An incentive to play more :lol:
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