Can we do something about the team damage?

[S3AL]

TD kinda getting wild recently. A whole bunch of heavies and spam players are rocking 600-1200td (5-10 team kills) per map and they dont give a shit. If they see an enemy they'll shoot regardless if theres 5 of their teammates there. Some of you naively consider this 'accidental', i call bs, easy to distinguish accidental vs reckless.

problem - no consequences to team killers themselves. I'd argue the 1500 limit is way too high and no one rly thinks they have to worry about doing 'team damage' and thats why they do it, the classic 'fuck the teammates I want that frag' mentality. Consequently they ruin the experience to every one else and get punished in no way whatsoever.

solution (proposal) - reduce the TK kick limit. Some limit is already there, so apparently someone had good intentions in reducing team damage but also keep it high enough to protect 'something' or 'someone'. Who though? Newcomers/amateurs dont do a lot of team damage. Objective based gameplay doesnt require high TD. Anyway, 500 sounds like a golden limit, but how about we start with 650 and test it out? Prediction: it wont end up in people getting kicked more often, but rather toxic players adjusting their toxic gameplay to new limits which reduce toxicity

Modern games dont even have team damage enabled and they are way less spammy than ET. Not saying that TD should be disabled in ET, just implying that conversation about reducing TD is not unorthodox at these times.

Ppl are pissed off about this, aint just me, I see it regularly.

[c0rnn]

It's 1200 at the moment, 600 or 500 is too strict, IMO.

Edit: clarified post.

[S3AL]

Highest top 50 TD givers ratios are between 200-300 per game (reading the stats on hirntot). Average is probably around a 100-120 per game. I think with 500 u're very safe, and with 650 super safe, u can start higher 750-850 and see how it goes, dunno. Players who deal over 700 usually get kick voted, never passes though cause of broken voting system. 1200 pretty much allows you to kill full health teammates 8-9 times per map - its pretty high man.

We need more 'IMOs'. I'll be back in a week, hopefully it doesnt die off.

[evirdrevo]

1200 is a good value. Lower it and you can't play fops any more, even if you put arties in non retarded ways, you will easily hit the 1200 td limit. But I understand the feeling, some people say sorry after tk'ing but its not an accident, it is 'I don't give a fuck' and recklessness indeed.

Btw, i suggested that script back in the days to the ghostworks admins, seems like nexus and hirntot copied it later

[nineinchnails]

I would also say 1200 is fine, for FOP's or Mortar's could it be hard to deal with 500 TD... can be reached quickly.
Establish different TD-values for the classes is probably ways too much effort... but medics shouldn't reach 1000 or more, I agree.

[S3AL]

Alright. So... fops and mortar should be allowed to make up to 1200TD aka 10 teamkills per map (which is by the way more than half the frags an average player makes per map) with zero consequences because why? ... they have no control over where they shoot/place arties/throw strikes? I mean 'why should we bother the mortar to look at the map where his teammates are when he is already so busy with all that sophisticated work of moving and aiming. Or... why bother a fops to call an arty anywhere else but the location where he can personally mostly benefit from in terms of frags?

I'm just digging for actual arguments, instead of just biased opinions. This really isn't class related.. you think it is, because you're not thinking, but it isn't. It's related to how recklessly someone plays, any class.

[nineinchnails]

1200 / 156 is not 10 by the way

500 means one really bad mortar shot/airstrike killing 4 teammates and you're off... we dont want that. While mortar playing there is not much room between your teammates and enemys and you couldn't see the exact situation in the overview map. You shoot and your team starts to rush -> kick...

[S3AL]

156 is lvl4 medic. 140 otherwise

Most of the classes are 100-120hp. I'd say using 120hp as an average hp per player was about right.

I never suggested 500 for hirntot, i said its the golden limit imo. But I did suggest starting with 650. After cornns opinion i suggested 850. Could be a trial and error kind of thing, finding something where players have to be careful about teamkilling but at the same time not get insta punished for a little mistake. I just know that 1200 aint that, bcs TD is brutal on the server, and no one feels like they have to worry about how much td they do.

Again, its not class related. Its how recklessly someone plays. Qpaq perfect example, he team kills with mortar and equally recklessly with panzer, its the way he plays the game... You (nine inch) tk me with mortar like... once per map maximum, so how does Qpaq do it 4 times per map playing the same class? Kiano is a heavy spammer, but never team kills for example because he's playing team aware mode. Mietas fops does no or very little team damage, on the other hand Miria fops playing the same class and does 1000td per map, constantly - think he's the only one who reaches 1200td couple times a year. Some people just play the game that way, not giving a shit about teammates, because... well, no consequences, or... lets just say it takes a lot of fucking up to reach a point where consequences come in.

[evirdrevo]

The 1200 limit was introduced because teamkill votes were turned off. In a perfect world you'd have teamkill votes on, most people would have turned them off clientside and only turn them on clientside when they got fed up with people doing preventable teamkills all the time. However people are assholes and abused those teamkill votes to get people they didnt like kicked so they got turned off serverside. Without consequences people started tk'ing even, some players like Sasha did 2000 td a map consistently and hence the td limit was introduced.

It's not a perfect solution and the professional teamkillers keep an eye on teamdamage and see that 1200 as the max they can do, they don't actively try to prevent teamdamage.

I understand your frustration with teamkilling and it are always the same people who do the avoidable ones but there isn't much you can do unless you plan to ban 1/5th of the ETpro scene. Same case can be made about blockers like Veltins who like to sit in the spawnexit to 'help more' with their ammopacks, its annoying as fuck but what are you going to do about it?

[c0rnn]

Offtopic but you know Veltins and $a$a are the same player, right? XD