Changed spawntimes

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Buro
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:20 am

Changed spawntimes

Post by Buro »

Dear all!
To my opinion changing spawntime on maps other than railgun (st for allies like for defending team) is not a good idea. 15s spawntime on oasis before wall destroying is too short compared to 30 sec axis. Too many changes arent good. So return old hirntot with only few changes(e.g. extra spawnspots) , because soon it wont be etpro anymore :f
Harlekin
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 am

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by Harlekin »

This change was made to prevent a full hold at the first stage of the map. it's frustrating to not even get old city. A reduced map time for the faster allied spawning would be possible, or even a adjustement to allied spawn time. maybe 16-18 seconds. i am open for solutions to prevent full hold on oasis at the first stage.
c0rnn
[!!!]
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:44 am

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by c0rnn »

It's based on sw_oasis_b3 spawntime, allies 15 axis 30.
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by hyperloop »

I fully agree with Buro. All stages should natively be fair to each side in terms of the map, without concern for balanced teams and skills. With this changed spawn time, this stage of Oasis is skewed in favor of the allied team. To make it fair axis st should be changed to 25. Because the predictability of a recap is now totally in favor of the allies. The reason for full holds on this stage is difference in skill and unbalanced teams, and ofc "chicken shit hang backers" who don't push and don't sacrifice themselves. This map stage is perfectly balanced in nature when the teams are balanced.
Harlekin
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 am

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by Harlekin »

hyperloop wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:27 am
I fully agree with Buro. All stages should natively be fair to each side in terms of the map, without concern for balanced teams and skills. With this changed spawn time, this stage of Oasis is skewed in favor of the allied team. To make it fair axis st should be changed to 25. Because the predictability of a recap is now totally in favor of the allies. The reason for full holds on this stage is difference in skill and unbalanced teams, and ofc "chicken shit hang backers" who don't push and don't sacrifice themselves. This map stage is perfectly balanced in nature when the teams are balanced.
With balanced teams, maps are pure fun.. and a battle in each stage. Tbh it is hard to force even teams, if not impossible. If we pause the game to make some switch or force some to switch, we can't prevent them from switching back, or have others joining the stronger team as they just like to win. Without skilled players willing to switch the team and prevent a boring ownage of one side there is no other way. That way attackers got at least a small victory in getting old city, instead of getting nothing and quit server at the end of campaign.
mETLA

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by mETLA »

Harlekin wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:53 pm
Tbh it is hard to force even teams, if not impossible. If we pause the game to make some switch or force some to switch, we can't prevent them from switching back, or have others joining the stronger team as they just like to win. Without skilled players willing to switch the team and prevent a boring ownage of one side there is no other way. That way attackers got at least a small victory in getting old city, instead of getting nothing and quit server at the end of campaign.
It's true that forcing even teams is very hard and frustrating and it's impossible to have even teams all the time. But from my point of view it happens too often that one team dominates not only one or two maps in a row but a whole campaign, usually because too many of the "good" players are in the same team. What could fix this, without having to do manual admining, and would also bring some more variety in general into the gameplay, is adding an automated !shuffle at the start of each map. This could of course annoy some of those players who always play in the same team, but on the other side should improve the gameplay and the fairness in the games.
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by hyperloop »

Harlekin wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:53 pm
With balanced teams, maps are pure fun.. and a battle in each stage. Tbh it is hard to force even teams, if not impossible. If we pause the game to make some switch or force some to switch, we can't prevent them from switching back, or have others joining the stronger team as they just like to win. Without skilled players willing to switch the team and prevent a boring ownage of one side there is no other way. That way attackers got at least a small victory in getting old city, instead of getting nothing and quit server at the end of campaign.
You are missing my point. I know that perfectly balanced teams are virtually impossible, but with this allied ST on this stage of Oasis, we are working out of the presumption that the allied are the weaker team. If this is not the case, axis are always overrun. This was the case of the new spawn point on battery side, which now have been moved back to make it fair to axis to defend as well.
Monty on the Run
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:41 pm
Location: The Outer Reaches of your Mind

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by Monty on the Run »

hyperloop wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:25 am
Harlekin wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:53 pm
With balanced teams, maps are pure fun.. and a battle in each stage. Tbh it is hard to force even teams, if not impossible. If we pause the game to make some switch or force some to switch, we can't prevent them from switching back, or have others joining the stronger team as they just like to win. Without skilled players willing to switch the team and prevent a boring ownage of one side there is no other way. That way attackers got at least a small victory in getting old city, instead of getting nothing and quit server at the end of campaign.
You are missing my point. I know that perfectly balanced teams are virtually impossible, but with this allied ST on this stage of Oasis, we are working out of the presumption that the allied are the weaker team. If this is not the case, axis are always overrun. This was the case of the new spawn point on battery side, which now have been moved back to make it fair to axis to defend as well.
I understand and have sympathy for what Harlekin is trying to do, but with regards to spawntimes I am on hyperloop’s side. I don’t think these should be changed on a standard map like Oasis ever. It’s true what he’s saying about axis often being overrun – lately when playing Oasis most of the fighting have been contested at the 2nd stage of the map because axis lost the flag early.

There’s no blueprint solution to these things, but I do know that Oasis have functioned as a good map without too many groans for nearly two decades. That was the original charm of Hirntot – you always knew what you were going to get with standard maps that hadn't been altered too much.
c0rnn
[!!!]
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:44 am

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by c0rnn »

Harlekin's new idea was to make it 15sec until Allied CP is built, and 20 after. Again, the 15sec is inspired by sw_oasis_b3 where it's 15sec so Allies can attack more frequently and not take 20sec just to get to Axis base. Nobody complains about sw_oasis_b3 spawntimes so I'm surprised 15 on oasis until wall is destroyed is such a problem. We will see, maybe we change back to default 20 or 15 until CP is built.
hyperloop
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Changed spawntimes

Post by hyperloop »

c0rnn wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:00 am
Harlekin's new idea was to make it 15sec until Allied CP is built, and 20 after.

That is pretty much useless, since CP is made first attack, and it will be a tactic to not repair it until flag is secured.
c0rnn wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:00 am
Again, the 15sec is inspired by sw_oasis_b3 where it's 15sec so Allies can attack more frequently and not take 20sec just to get to Axis base. Nobody complains about sw_oasis_b3 spawntimes so I'm surprised 15 on oasis until wall is destroyed is such a problem. We will see, maybe we change back to default 20 or 15 until CP is built.
The reason nobody complained about it is that its a SW (6vs6 built) edition of the map and it was rarely played. Its not that it is a problem, its just that its an unfair starting point for this stage for axis. Fair would be 20/30 or 15/25.
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